Curse

bamm bamm bamm · Feb 27, 2007, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by aB-

While I don't find the article offensive, I find it pointless. Only the very bad players are going to be using some of the PvE tactics he talked about in his article, and those that do are probably not reading the State of the Game articles.

This is the real problem. The article isn't really offensive, it's just that an almost perfect line can be drawn between the people it addresses and the people who end up reading it. These people end up thinking the author is being condescending. Banality ensues. I think they have the right intentions but they need to send the articles out in game for them to become a little less pointless.

Eviance · Feb 27, 2007, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Well I have to say that I slightly agree with his statement that some players who have beaten the game need to unlearn it.... I will never forget the day in HA when some wammo wanted to play stance tank for our team. He even went as far as to tell us all we needed was a stance tank and that that was all the skills he had (including mending)... I think a little part of me died that day of laughter of course. However it was not his skills that bothered me as much as his innability to learn from what we told him and how you cannot "stance" your way to victory in HA... *sighs*

What's this mission!?!
and Glint is the last boss in the game!

Redfeather1975 · Feb 27, 2007, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

This is like beating a dead horse that has already been turned into dog food.

Maybe they want to make glue.

I still believe that having seperate effects for PVP and PVE for skills is the way to go. PVP and PVE do not happen at the same time in this game. You don't find yourself using your skills against a monster and being ambushed by a player and have to use the same skills on that player.
The two modes are completley seperate.
You are either fighting against monsters or fighting against players, except Fort Aspenwood, but that's not enough to make a difference.

All skills should have a PVP description and a PVE description. You just toggle them with a checkbox. Before bashing the idea, it's being done already in other games. It works to help keep both modes of a game balanced, because it handles skill changes seperately.

DreamWind · Feb 27, 2007, 05:59 AM // 05:59

The saddest part is, while the article lacks some content I would have like to have seen, it is full of sad truths about Guild Wars.

From playing this game since nearly the beginning, I can tell you that at least 90% of the players in this game have no idea how to play pvp properly. I am fine with that if they don't feel like playing pvp, but to say that this article is way off base is absurd.

Go to any pvp match with new players (such as random arenas) and you will find skills such as mending or healing breeze or rebirth on nearly every bar of warriors or monks. People trying to deny this clearly have not played these arenas anytime recently.

Speaking of mending, this skill is bad in pve as well, but what do 90%+ of warriors carry on their bar when asked to show their skills? Mending. As far as I am concerned, this article brought up sad truths about Guild Wars that people are trying desperately to deny.

Redfeather1975 · Feb 27, 2007, 06:06 AM // 06:06

It's just that some people think about and play the game a lot more than others. Some are diehard and some are casual. I don't think either one should be bashed for how they play, it's just important to recognize that they both exist and accept that.

VitisVinifera · Feb 27, 2007, 06:10 AM // 06:10

this article is merely the latest installment of how deep the disconnect is between anet and the gw community

that the article was such a piece of flaming poo is one thing, but that his superiors allowed this is another thing.

a new low

Redfeather1975 · Feb 27, 2007, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Well from what I've seen of at least the last 2 PVP primers, some of the articles are written either very hastily or by people whose knowledge of the game comes from talking to other people.

Calen The Civl · Feb 27, 2007, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

Maybe they want to make glue.

I still believe that having seperate effects for PVP and PVE for skills is the way to go. PVP and PVE do not happen at the same time in this game. You don't find yourself using your skills against a monster and being ambushed by a player and have to use the same skills on that player.
The two modes are completley seperate.
You are either fighting against monsters or fighting against players, except Fort Aspenwood, but that's not enough to make a difference.

All skills should have a PVP description and a PVE description. You just toggle them with a checkbox. Before bashing the idea, it's being done already in other games. It works to help keep both modes of a game balanced, because it handles skill changes seperately.

I have to agree with you, Redfeather. While seperating pvp and pve versions of skills would add another hurdle in the pve-pvp transition, it would help eliminate a lot of the unrest surrounding each aspect influencing the other. The change could also in some ways force players to not take their pve builds into pvp with some type of warning when entering pvp areas.

This separation would also allow harder controls on bot farming through skill changes if Anet desires without crippling pvp.

Racthoh · Feb 27, 2007, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

What do you think? What got you interested in PvP (or why aren't you interested)? Did you struggle with these issues and if so, how did you overcome them?

I think numbers would've helped the article, I've much cared for the whole "Don't use this skill" approach to teaching. All he really says about Mending is that it takes energy from the monks (I don't think he has to mention that it's not an anti-spike skill...). If you want to say don't use Mending back up what you say with numbers.

As far as getting into PvP, friend's list for me. I met someone in PvE who eventually joined a guild with a PvP focus and they asked me to tag along every so often. They eventually became more competitive and I was given numerous chances to experience higher-end PvP. Before that, I played around in halls a little (maybe 20 fame?) and messed with RA as a 'tank'. Boy I was leet then.

Thallandor · Feb 27, 2007, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Saying PvErs are noobs and that they should go learn to PvP or STFU is a sure way to bring in more new customers and retain existing player base. This is "definately" gonna help sell GW. gg ANET.

yep go ahead and close this thread for PvE against PvP who cares anyways.

Winstar · Feb 27, 2007, 06:52 AM // 06:52

The skills the author picked on are still commonly chosen skills that show up in RA unfortunately. The people who run warriors who cast life transfer, heal breeze, energy burn, etc or rangers casting firestorm and flare somehow got the wrong idea about what is good in pvp. The real question is whether these problem builds are the result of PvE players dragging over their PvE assumptions or something else. I think this may be the case in sometimes but I also think a great many pve players would think of these things as equally bad. I think the problem in general isn't always about PvE players using bad pve ideas in PvP but just about poor player skill and game understanding in general.

From my own experince I played PvE for a long time before digging getting into PvP. I actually really enjoyed the transition and now PvP is by far my favorite part of the game. Now, this of course isn't going to be everyones experience, but I would suggest to everyone that they at least try it out because you might end up having a lot of fun. If you make a real effort and get past the annoyance of RA at times and meet some people also interested in getting into PvP you might find you really enjoy it. Its not going to be for everyone, but it is a great part of the game that can add a lot more depth and replayability to gw.

Edge Martinez · Feb 27, 2007, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

Some people, like myself do not like the game play of the PvP game in GW.

You summed up my feelings perfectly. GW is just right for me to enjoy a cooperative story with some friends. When we feel like PvP, we turn off GW and load up in Marauders and Atlases and blow the hell out of each other. I don't see why people try and push PvP on PvEers, or PvE on PvPers. There are some awesome PvP players, and they get alot of respect for it, but the two aspects of GW are very different and don't appeal to everyone.

Lastly, on those rare occassions where I actually decide to try PvP, I have no way of actually proving that I have attained at least rank 1, so it's easier to just go AB or Aspenwood, where I don't have to wait forever for a team, and I get some amber out of the deal. He never addressed that at all. He makes it sound like PvP just welcomes people with open arms and it's our fault for not trying it. Truth be told, most of us (on both sides) don't care. From now on, IMHO, they'd be better off calling it the State of the Games, cause I see them as separate.

zakaria · Feb 27, 2007, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Don't tell me that 10-15 years old kid playing PvE for free monthly subscription can ever understand the mechanics of PvP and making and modifying his build. Their ability to understand that become much less when they face the elitism in PvP.

Apok Omen · Feb 27, 2007, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Read the article, must say this is Anet's best way of speaking the truth: they want more PvPer's.

Well, just a little problem: it is partially their fault.

From the beginning, many people did PvP for fun, competition, and they really liked the difficulty on the many levels of PvP. However, they saw that people were having trouble getting into those high levels of PvP. Instead of making a training area or letting them get better on their own, they made different changes.

One of the most devastating one of all is the 6v6 Double Fame weekend. Anet heard many complaints from the low-level place holders of PvP that they could not get into a group because of ''rank-discrimination''. From my own standpoint, I will have to say that I am disgusted by this. Since it is and always will be Anet's passion to get more players into PvP, they listened to these people.

Now, instead of looking around at sports and other competitions around the world (and do not tell me PvP-gaming and real life sports are not the same; when it comes to the main point, they are), they made it more accessible for players who never had enough people to get into a group, and prompted more players to get their rank faster. However, it had a reverse effect on the community.

After making the change based upon the results from the weekend, many experienced players of HA uninstalled GW and went to other games. This caused a chain reaction. With no more experienced players to group with, even with the 6v6 group size, the players still highly dedicated to HA had to settle with other PuGs. But, since the lower-level PvPers (or the ''newbs in PvP) do not have anymore nice and well-experienced players to group up with, their primary objective to get into groups with higher-end players was nearly gone.

I respect Anet for making many efforts to restore PvP, and Adam's article was fair; it did not state that they wanted to force devoted PvE-ers to PvP but instead helped the players that were interested in PvP that didn't quite have a grasp on how to play differently.

This is not a flame post; this is merely me pointing out how their in-game changes did not satisfy all and that taking an outside approach was smart.

Bread Fan · Feb 27, 2007, 07:11 AM // 07:11

I think that article was GREAT! He also left out endure pain. Not only do I see PvE players using those skills in RA but HA as well. Some of you need to lighten up because as harsh as you may have found that article it is so true.

Shmanka · Feb 27, 2007, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

As I said in the other thread, I'm actually offended that someone got paid for writing up shit like that.

A couple months ago, I would write a much better article for anet on the same topic for free if they published it on their site. Now, I just stopped caring. PvP has clearly gone down the gutter and this crap they're putting out to attract players is too little and too late.

I would actually like to see that article to let me read if you don't mind, but I think we can all agree that even my left foot could have wrote something better. This is such a bland bland article, basically Sunstrum put up a couple "Do Not Pass Go" signs here and there. Even though he is correct it could have been done in a better fashion, like instead of looking at individual skills saying that they are "slow" casting time and immediate effects could have been looked as to how they are better in PvP which is more time based then PvE where it is patience based.

-Loki- · Feb 27, 2007, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

I wanna slap that dude. Mending sucks in PvE too.

Since when did a skills usefulness matter to PvErs? And yes, I've seen many stupid reasons to use mending.I've seen people seriously say mending is good for countering vampiric degen. And use it for that purpose.

zwei2stein · Feb 27, 2007, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Anet fails to see one thing - PvE players interested in PvP already made this transition and are happy. PvE players not interested in PvP simply dont do it because its not fun for them.

no amount of insulting articles (i find this insulting as author seems to thing that every PvE players is simply dumb and thtas reason he wont PvP), silly incentives (double fame event - who cares? Crystalines and others drop in hoh chest - so what, realistic chance of getting one only deffers you from wasting time in there.) or tying PvP to PvE (see how hated favor is) is gonna change view.

Edge Martinez · Feb 27, 2007, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Just for kicks, I went to HA and saw LF R5++, even a R10++. No dice. So I head on over to RA and get in with a good group. My Ranger, an Assassin, a Monk and another Ranger. We crank off 3 wins, and I'm like... Ok, not bad. We crank off 3 more. Ok, great. We crank off 3 more. Fantastic! Now I'm a win away from my very first Gladiator point... and I guarantee you we'd have got it. I figure we're all going to get one. Then I see all 3 of the other people type 'Thnx for glad point' and they leave. I end up in a group with 2 Paragons and a Dervish.

WTF?

In that time I could have been up to 2k in tombs getting ready for the boss drops. One grind is enough for me, thanks.

Patrick Smit · Feb 27, 2007, 09:30 AM // 09:30

some people just think for themselves and do not want to try and get u one or two more in TA, i usually ask and try. Its often worth a shot, though harder as u will not be as balanced as a good team.

For the rest. I think first time PvP can be quite confronting to PvEers. They finished the PvE game, and might think they are good at GW. No, they are at best good at the PvE side of the game, but even if you are not good, the PvE game is quite forgiving to mistakes or just mediocre or bad play.

PvP is just different, and u must relearn the rules here. Just ignore spoofing and insults, and progress. If u see yourself become better it will be rewarding.